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VRT Noticeboard
Welcome to the VRT noticeboard

This page is where users can communicate with Commons Volunteers Response Team members, or VRT agents with one another. You can request permissions verification here, or anything else that needs an agent's assistance. This page is multilingual — when discussing tickets in languages other than English, please make a note of this and consider asking your question in the same language.

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File:Lee Sang-ho.jpg and ticket #2014070110000717.[edit]

This file came up while I was doing my daily check of Flickr files that need license reviews. The Flickr source is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA 2.0 at https://www.flickr.com/photos/koreanet/39760227514, but there is a Korea.net license template with a VRT template on the file that give it a CC-BY-SA 2.0 license. The VRT Template links to https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketZoom&TicketNumber=2014070110000717 I'm told that this ticket has red flags and is a cluster but I want to try to see if I can resolve the contradictions on this file before I file a deletion request or request a F4 speedy. Abzeronow (talk) 16:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Abzeronow: The ticket relates as far as I can understand to a single image on Flickr which has been relicensed to CCBYSA by Korea.net on request: https://www.flickr.com/photos/koreanet/14518090226/. This photo is available on Commons as File:NMK Network Fellowship Program 14 (14518090226).jpg. There may have been intentions to ask for more free licensing to Korea.net in 2014/2015, as template {{Korea.net}} seems to be some general format. This template has been made by User:Russavia, now banned. In one of the emails of the tickets, reference is made to this discussion. Imho it would be the safe route to delete the template and all images where it is used per COM:PRP (after checking the flickr source), except the mentioned image, and to mention the ticket only on that image. Perhaps User:-revi can comment before final decision on this, because they were involved in the template and speak Korean. The VRT agent at the time cannot be contacted any more, it seems. Regards, Ellywa (talk) 19:30, 26 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, Ellywa. For now, I'll just start a DR on this one image. I'll wait for -revi to comment before I take any action on the template itself. Abzeronow (talk) 16:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(Currently not at home and will need until weekend to thoroughly read stuff. Ping me over the usertalk page if I haven't commented by Monday.) — regards, Revi 05:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The remainder of Category:Photographs by Stevan Kragujević not yet uploaded to Commons[edit]

Hello VRT, Serbian Wikipedia over at sr:Kategorija:Stevan Kragujević contains many files not yet transferred over to Commons. Some of them locally uploaded there have OTRS tags, but not all, despite all having the claim to have been uploaded "with the approval of [Stevan's] daughter Tanja Kragujević" ("po odobrenju kćerke Tanje Kragujević"), just like the rest of files VRT verified on Commons. Are all OTRS tagged files ready to be moved to Commons? What about the rest? There are many non-tagged files, so I worry we could be left without these if not resolved on time. I asked on the linked Serbian Wikipedia category's talk page but haven't received a relevant answer to my question. –Vipz (talk) 17:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It will need a Serbian language user to determine, but my impression with Google translate is that "No" is the answer. --Krd 12:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is this usual?[edit]

An organisation I'm working with (let's call them "Acme") has sent one of the standard emails to VTRS, asserting their ownership of rights in some images and releasing them under a suitable licence. The images, taken recently and depicting the organisation's premises, are uploaded as being photographed by "Acme Staff member".

A VTRS volunteer responds, asking them who took the photographs and how did the organisation come to own the copyright.

Surely if his information is required, it should be included in the standard email templates? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes it is usual, and no it shouldn't. There are reasons, but they shouldn't be discussed publicly. --Krd 15:33, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not buying "shouldn't be discussed publicly"; we need more transparency in how VRTS operates, not less. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are mistaken. Intransparency is the only reason for the VRT to exist, and if you remove it, you'd better remove the VRT. If your question is how a permission owner shall act to satisfy the VRT, you'd also better ask how to achieve releasing the file without the VRT at all. It's easy, put the file elsewhere at a trusted place, i.e. at the own website, under a free license, and handle it at Commons with license review. Krd 09:20, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is information out there that can help understand what VRT is expecting here though. For instance, a procedure description we created for Dutch permissions from GLAM also speaks about clarity on the copyright holder. And the status of copyright holder depends on the legal relationship between the creator/employee/volunteer and the GLAM - same is for the organization you are working with at the moment. Sometimes the relationship is very obvious, in other cases not so much and that is why this part cannot be standardized and needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis.
I hope the link helps a bit Andy - I know you raised questions about transparency of VRT procedures in the past, and I hope my answer will not lead to a repetition of that situation but does provide some additional insight. Ciell (talk) 10:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Why is a statement from the rights holder that they are the rights holder not sufficient? If they are are going to lie about that, they could as easily lie in response to the question in my OP. Thank you for the link but I can see nothing pertinent there. As to my previous concerns about (what was) OTRS' transparency, there is no chance of a "repetition of that situation", as that situation is not yet resolved and I still await the answers to my original questions; which were most recently put to members of the board in Singapore. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:07, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Pigsonthewing: "Why is a statement from the rights holder that they are the rights holder not sufficient?" That begs the question. If VRT knows the person is legitimately the rights holder, then such a statement (combined with granting a license) presumably is sufficient. But we've all seen it over and over on more "open" matters as well: someone may misunderstand what rights they hold, or may misrepresent themselves. - Jmabel ! talk 16:58, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I refer you to my second sentence; which you appear to have overlooked in your response. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are a lot of things you can't lie about, or which it is very difficult to lie about, and that can be used to validate a claimed identity or claimed possession of rights. But up to a point you are right: if someone is willing and able to present plausible, forged legal documents (ID, transfer of rights) they'll probably get away with a false claim. - Jmabel ! talk 21:13, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There were no "legal documents" in this case; all that was required, apparently, was a statement to the effect "the images were taken by an Acme staff member, at work". Given that the images were already sourced to "Acme staff member", with an statement, in the original email to VTRS, that Acme is the copyright holder, the redundancy should be obvious. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Pigsonthewing: Generally speaking, there are two ways for someone to lie about being authorized to issue a copyright release: 1) they lie about who they are; 2) they lie that the person they claim to be (whether true or not) is the copyright holder. Usually, the more "official-looking" the person or entity that the sender claims to be or represent, the more likely the former is to happen and the less likely the latter is to happen, and vice versa. If someone claiming to be from Coca-Cola sends us a permission email, I would take great care to ensure that they are actually an authorized representative of Coca-Cola, but once that passes muster I wouldn't worry for one second that Coca-Cola is not in fact the copyright holder as claimed. If Joe Shmoe claims to be the author of a professional-looking photo, I will assume that they are telling the truth about being Joe Shmoe since there is no advantage to be gained by lying there, but I may request additional evidence to show that they took the photo. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On the contrary. VRTS exists to ensure confidentiality in communication between Wikimedia volunteers and the subjects of articles or media; or rights-owners of media; there is no need for the "intransparency" of VRTS policies or procedures. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:07, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As you may have noticed, most people don't have any understanding in copyright, but state what they think to be true. The VRT permissions team tries to as far as possible figure out what really is the case, and obtain permission from the real copyright holder. To achieve that, questions are sometimes required. Perhaps smetimes these question may seems surplus, but they aren't, and they are always easy to answer at no cost. --Krd 16:22, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This appears to be orthogonal to the issue of "intransparency". Nor does it address the matter of "Surely if his information is required, it should be included in the standard email templates?". The cost of requiring extra emails is burden on image donors, for many of whom this is neither a hobby nor core business, and may thus loose us goodwill. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Pigsonthewing: To your point about transparency, I always advocate for avoiding VRT whenever possible, because it useful for everyone to be able to verify the provenance of an image if there's no private information involved. I only recommend people go through it if we need to verify an email address, talk to someone without a Commons account, or otherwise discuss confidential matters. Honestly, the practice of drive-by tagging of previously unpublished uploads which are claimed to be "own work" with {{No permission since}}, simply because the tagger does not believe it is own work, and pointing them to VRT is quite lazy. In a vast majority of cases the uploader does not respond and the image is deleted. When the uploader does in fact email VRT, what happens a lot of the time is the agent will do a reverse image search, find no results, and accept the permission because the claim of own work looks reasonable enough. Great, we just made them go through hoops for nothing - instead of an "own work" claim from a random username, we now have an "own work" claim from a random email address. In cases where we want additional evidence to be comfortable assuming good faith, we sometimes ask them to email us the original file with EXIF. But again, that is something they could have done on-wiki. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:04, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2012071210005204[edit]

Here's another such case like the one above. Why on earth would anyone believe this to be a selfie? --2003:C0:8F19:9100:2568:EC01:7D27:89AA 20:08, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I could easily take an equivalent picture of myself, using a shutter delay. I see no particular reason to doubt if that is what someone claimed to have done. - Jmabel ! talk 20:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So is that what the VRT correspondence says? "This is a selfie, I used shutter delay"?
Here's your reason for doubt, if you actually need one in such an obvious case. --2003:C0:8F19:9100:2568:EC01:7D27:89AA 21:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here's another one, also with a nice VRT ticket (ticket:2012071210006356). An upload by the same user, allegedly also a selfie. Of a different person. Does he seriously claim to have taken selfies of two different people?
(Not to mention the fact that this is obviously a professional promo photo and not a selfie.) --2003:C0:8F46:4900:6C4A:1E52:3252:D466 08:29, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And yet another one, ticket:2018090110002802. Again, the uploader is the image subject. By Austrian Urheberrecht law, this would mean the picture must be a selfie. Seriously? What on earth did the uploader tell the support team in the VRT correspondence? --2003:C0:8F3D:2E00:4C53:A07B:9E8F:667C 20:14, 16 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And yet another one, ticket:2023071910006206. A selfie? Really? --2003:C0:8F2E:E500:2DB9:A69C:7D24:E5B7 17:52, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2023091010000046[edit]

Hello, it's been 17 days since the email was sent for File:Anri, 2023.jpg and I was wondering if I could get an update for the processing. reppoptalk 22:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Reppop We've asked for the original photograph to the author, in order to verify its source. Waiting for an answer. Ruthven (msg) 12:49, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've asked the user (the brother of the author) about it and they said that the author sent photos for verification. reppoptalk 20:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Reppop - If the brother's email didn't contain "Ticket#2023091010000046" in the title (which seems fairly likely given the situation), it might be have been caught by the spam filter and lost. I would recommend re-sending the email to permissions-commons(at)wikimedia.org, with "Ticket#2023091010000046" in the title. whym (talk) 03:12, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

About a file with unclear copyright ownership[edit]

I originally tagged the file for speedy deletion as a copyright violation of an Instagram post. It was undeleted today by Krd, citing Ticket:2023093010005745. I saw the image was added back to the article it was being used for on the English Wikipedia (w:en:Deeper (band)) and tagged the image again, as I didn't see the VRT ticket and assumed that the page had been disruptively recreated. However, the image was deleted again by Elcobbola, citing insufficient permission. I'd appreciate if a VRT agent could clarify what happened with this file, thanks! Also pinging Xm4729, the page creator. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:26, 1 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A response was already sent through the VRT system, and notation of the issue provided. There is nothing to be accomplished on-site. Эlcobbola talk 18:28, 1 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TechnoSquirrel69, I second what @Elcobbola has said above. The question that has been asked here on what happened with this file has already been clarified in a response to the ticket. It is sufficient and if the issues raised are not sorted out, we cannot host such an image here. ─ The Aafī (talk) 17:14, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the replies; I mostly asked here for the benefit of Xm4729, who presumably has now received the VRTS notification. My only involvement with this image, as I said above, is finding it in use on the English Wikipedia and nominating it for deletion. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:24, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Query regarding a deleted file[edit]

File:1910s_Kingsley_Griffith,_Liberal.jpg had been deleted from Commons in 2013, apparently as a copyvio, referring to OTRS ticket:2013100610005833. As we are still hosting this image on enwiki, could someone please check for me what the reasoning may have been? Felix QW (talk) 08:10, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It stays unclear in the ticket if the uploader is copyright holder at all; in any case they didn't intend to publish it for commercial use. I suggest to delete the file on enwiki. --Krd 08:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Krd: Thank you very much for the clarification! I was just wondering how it could still be in copyright, as a 1910s studio photograph whose phtotgrapher died in 1934. Felix QW (talk) 21:09, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It hasn't been said anywhare that the photographer died in 1934. Is there any evidence for that? Krd 13:51, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2023021610013794[edit]

Hi, File:Voie romaine Pons-Guimps, entre Marignac et Sainte Lheurine.tif was uploaded on November 2022, but this is a derivative work of a non-free map. What's in the ticket? Thanks, Yann (talk) 09:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The ticket (in French) seems not conclusive for this and 3 other images. @Reinhard Kraasch: can you please comment? Ellywa (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The ticket is still open for these files and the permission not accepted - my colleague User:Mussklprozz has asked the uploader "All four drawings are based on maps. These are often protected by copyright. So in each of the four cases, we need proof that either full usage rights have been granted to you under a free license for the underlying map, or that the map has been published under a free license." The uploader will probably not answer properly, so the files in question will be deleted. --Reinhard Kraasch (talk) 20:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, thanks. So Commons:Deletion requests/File:Voie romaine Pons-Guimps, entre Marignac et Sainte Lheurine.tif. Yann (talk) 12:39, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ticket permission added by non-VRT member[edit]

Please check these edits: [1] and [2]. Thanks, Komarof (talk) 06:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ticket in Cyrilic text. Ellywa (talk) 10:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. Ahonc, could you please check these? --Komarof (talk) 11:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2016032310006997[edit]

File:Charleroi-industrie-terril-paysage-Christophe-Vandercam.jpg , last update 4 avril 2016 à 19:58, https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketZoom&TicketNumber=2016032310006997.

Basically, I would like to understand if it is possible to have proof of purchase by the city of Charleroi, as expressed " image faisant partie d'une commande passée par l'administration communale de Charleroi au photographe Christophe Vandercam. http://www.charleroi-bouwmeester.be/"

As I was able to understand directly with the photographer, the image was sold to the city and other privates. Suddenly the city made it available in wikimedia with CC BY-SA 4.0 Deed. The problem is that the Visual Right Group company is saying that the rights belong to another company (image stock/database provider) and is demanding payment for the rights.

Thank you Bangiomorpha (talk) 11:20, 20 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Thibaut120094: , can you please look into this question? Ellywa (talk) 20:11, 4 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We received back in 2016 a scanned written CC BY-SA 4.0 permission from Christophe Vandercam with his signature (link for VRT agents). Thibaut (talk) 15:09, 5 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:Korea President Park Smithsonian 20130507 02.jpg[edit]

I'm writing an article on the artwork seen in this picture. The licensing says it's free to use, but is it referring to only the photo or the photo and artwork? APK (talk) 04:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@APK: That might be problematic. I don't see any indication that the person or entity that licensed the photo got clearance from the artist, and it is certainly a derivative work. - Jmabel ! talk 16:43, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok thank you. I might crop it and use a fair use photo I’ll take this weekend. APK (talk) 16:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:P-Square.jpg and ticket: 2023102710000762[edit]

Hello, I want to verify the status of this image: File:P-Square.jpg with the ticket number 2023102710000762. What is the update of the license declaration? Delimane (talk) 08:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Delimane: What was on the screen when file:P-Square.jpg was shot? Evidently, we don't have sufficient permission for it yet from Meaches Photography under Ticket:2023102710000762, and permission is not evident on Instagram.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 09:55, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Meaches Photography are the one who shot the photo. The P-Square duo gave credit to the photographer ‘Meaches Photography’ in a similar post with the same outfit here on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CkGuJ2ILrFk/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Meaches photography, who granted me permission to use it, said he is in talk with the VRTs team on the image licensing process. Delimane (talk) 17:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It isn't helpful to discuss the content here, please put relevant information into the ticket. --Krd 05:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Krd: I can't, you won't let me.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 11:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 14:20, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Double-check permissions for files connected to Videke[edit]

Videke (talk · contribs) takes plenty of liberties with copyright, as evidenced by Commons:Deletion requests/Files from Awuku Studios and Wikipédia:Requête aux administrateurs#Demande de conseil vis-à-vis de Videke. I kindly request that all permissions for files connected to his articles be double checked. These are:

Thanks. Cryptic-waveform (talk) 16:06, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Cryptic-waveform,
I don't take liberty on copyright
I have removed all sources linked to the website: awukustudios.com in my articles although I am not the author
I am not an editor of this website, the website is created in Guinea by a company belonging to Bouba, I was just called after all to do the design and I signed the design on the footer . That's all, but I don't know why I am taken as the owner of the website? but the website is still under maintenance, go check whois to see if I have anything to do with the content of the website or do some research and write to the site studio to see if I am the one in charge of their contents.
I'm not even part of their committee.
-----
For the files cited here, my name is not cited as author and it is other people who added the files, I have nothing to do with that, check it again
If you want verification on the authors, do some research on them and surely you will have answers after discussing with them, otherwise, I have nothing to do with the images because my name does not appear on the images .
Videke (talk) 10:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"I don't take liberty on copyright" Your contributions here and on the French wikipedia say otherwise which is why I'm requesting to double-check the permissions. Cryptic-waveform (talk) 15:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Monument to Jakob Hurt[edit]

Can someone check ticket:2020071910004071 with regards to Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Monument to Jakob Hurt? Thanks. —holly {chat} 18:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ticket in Estonian. We have nobody who can read that. --Krd 12:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Google Translate? Not always the most reliable, but not bad these days. —holly {chat} 17:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Has anyone considered inviting User:Taivo into the VRT, with no expectation other than that he would deal with the handful of issues that require reading Estonian? He is certainly a very trusted admin. - Jmabel ! talk 18:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kruusamägi (talk · contribs) is a VRT agent from Estonia. Let him comment the ticket. Taivo (talk) 22:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, he's the one already involved in the DR. I will assume that the ticket is valid for the nominated files, then. —holly {chat} 01:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh yes please. @Taivo, please join us! ─ The Aafī (talk) 05:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Evidence of permission for a cropped version of an image whose permission has been confirmed by the VRT[edit]

The image File:JudithButler2013.jpg has evidence of permission confirmed by the VRT. The image File:JudithButler2013_(cropped).jpg is a cropped version of it. Should the evidence statement of the original image be copied to the cropped image? Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no clear policy. I think it's not needed as the permission is clear. --Krd 15:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 15:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Checking for permissions for File:Dyanasofya02.jpg and File:Dato'_Sri_Ruddy_Awah.jpg.[edit]

The photographer of File:Dyanasofya02.jpg informed me that he has sent a release email on the 15th of November (he may not have mentioned the URL), while the photographer of File:Dato'_Sri_Ruddy_Awah.jpg sent a release email on the 17th of November and would like the full resolution version taken down and replaced with a lower quality version. For the latter, is it better to delete the file and upload the replacement as attached by the photographer? HejTuWou (talk) 02:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:P-Square.jpg Ticket: 2023111510005895[edit]

Hello, what is the update of the licensing for this image:

File:P-Square.jpg

Ticket: 2023111510005895 Delimane (talk) 14:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Exactly the same as last time you asked at multiple places at the same time. --Krd 14:20, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 14:20, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Coding problem[edit]

Regarding the page for Category:Chimney Rock (Montezuma County, Colorado), the Otheruses template is at the top of the page, but it is not displaying correctly. I could not fix it. It may be a problem with the template itself. Can you have a look? Jeffrey Beall (talk) 17:15, 24 November 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Although this question doesn't belong here, @Jeffrey Beall, I have fixed it for you with this edit. ─ The Aafī (talk) 17:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. ─ The Aafī (talk) 17:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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